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Smallville musings. - I worship at the television altar
tariel22
tariel22
Smallville musings.
I haven't even begun to catch up on my flist after being away, and I'll probably regret posting this, but I've always been impulsive, so here goes nothing.

I'm very fortunate in the friends I've found in the Smallville fandom universe, and I'm actually quite proud to count among my friends fans from different factions. There are Chlarkers, Cloisers, Clexers, and even people like me, who would say they are none of the above. But lately as I write my reviews, I find myself hesitating to express certain opinions, because I don't want to offend or perhaps even lose one of my friends. And I think that's bad.

I never want to be the kind of fan who exists solely in a niche created by those who agree with me. I want to hear everyone's viewpoint, have lively discussions, and even agree to disagree. I find that infinitely more interesting than day after day of posting "Word!" "Me, too!" and "ITA!!" At the same time, I desperately want everyone to like me. :) Have I lost you yet? What I find particularly unnerving is the vitriol I see tossed back and forth between the more, shall we say, passionate members of some groups. I haven't seen this on my flist, but I know it's out there, and it keeps me cognizant that emotions run high when you're discussing someone's favorite character or 'ship. And as much as I hate to admit it, that awareness has on occasion affected what I write.

So today I'm going to put it all out there. I'm going to tell you all where I stand on all things Smallville. Some of you know me well enough that there will probably be no surprises. Some of you may stop reading right here because you couldn't care less about my opinions. :) I just feel like if I'm honest and straightforward here, it will make it impossible for me to play the coward by continuing to hedge my bets in my writing, which I never want to do again. I was completely honest in my review of Descent, and I'm feeling some pain for that, but I'm trying to embrace it. I vastly prefer a healthy argument to stony silence, believe me.

1) First and foremost, I'm a Tom Welling fan. Over and above any character on this show, I adore this man. I think he's a great actor, and, from what we see of him in the public eye, a great guy. So it should come as no surprise that I am also a Clark fan. When I watch the show, he's the only character I'm truly passionate about, in the sense that I care about what happens to him over any other character. I wouldn't call myself a Clark apologist, but with all the fanwanking I do for this show, I'd probably be lying. :)

2) The relationship in which I'm most interested is the one between Clark and Lex, as friends, and now enemies. I have no interest in or expectation of seeing Clex slash on the show, but I enjoy the Ho!Yay moments for what they say about the complexity of this relationship. I think Tom Welling and Michael Rosenbaum have incredible chemistry together, and I think that's what makes Clark and Lex such a delight to watch.

3) Michael Rosenbaum owns me. He is so talented, and so funny, and so generous with his fans, and just such a sweetheart in all things, it's impossible not to love him. Because of MR, I will always love Lex, and never give up on him. But I do believe Lex when he says, "I am the villain of the story," and I do believe he's accountable for that. Lex's life has been fraught with pain, abuse, betrayal, and heartache, but in the end he chose the path of darkness all by himself.

4) I love Chloe. What I love most about her is that she was created just for Smallville, and I think she's a better character because of that. Her development has been much more organic than the iconic characters, because there is no canon to force the writers' hands. I respect her, I genuinely like her, and I wish I had a friend like her! I also love that she has become so fiercely loyal to Clark, and never stops believing in him. I honestly don't know where Clark would be without Chloe.

5) I'm not a Chlarker, or a Chloiser. I love it in fanfic and vids, but I don't particularly hope for it on the show. I would kind of like Chloe to remain unique, and not have her special qualities blended into existing canon by making her into Lois. And in spite of some great kisses, I don't see that kind of chemistry between Clark and Chloe on the show. To be fair, I don't see it between Clark and Lois either. Can we bring Alicia back from the dead and turn her into Lois somehow? Because that chemistry was hot! :) I don't think we'll see Chloe and Clark get together on the show, although with AlMiles gone, who knows? If it does happen, however, I'll definitely be on board. As long as the writing is good, and they don't completely mess with the Superman mythology, I'm up for any number of outcomes.

6) I'm not a Clexer. I read Clex slash (for some reason, it's the only slash I like), and I love it, but only in fanfic and vids. I'm even a little uncomfortable with a lot of the manips, but only because I think they would make the boys uncomfortable if they saw them. Well, maybe not Michael. :)

7) I'm not a Cloiser, if a Cloiser is what I think it is. I think it's someone who likes Lois as she's currently written on the show, and who hopes to see Lois and Clark grow closer and fall in love on Smallville. As anyone who read my review of Descent knows, I don't like Smallville's Lois. I think she's got potential, and I think she's definitely redeemable, but right now I think they're doing a great disservice to the iconic character I've loved for years. And it's problematic, because they've already written Chloe to play most of the role in Clark's life that Lois is destined to play in Superman's, so I can see why any Chloe fan would embrace the Chlois theory.

I'm one of those purists who thinks Lois should never have come to Smallville, but since she did, let's get her right! Quite frankly, I think the writers are as obsessed with Lois's boobs as Jimmy is, and see her more as a set decoration than a character who is pivotal to the story. And that is so wrong. She needs to smarten up, stop falling into bed with everyone (especially her boss), go to college (as should Clark, for that matter) and get a journalism degree (don't forget the ethics class), and start to see Clark for who he really is, instead of making fun of him all the time. We've seen some wonderful moments with Lois, but overall? They're doing it wrong.

8) For the record, just in case you're brand new to my journal, I hate the Clana. I don't hate Lana, I don't think, I just hate what she does to Clark and Lex. I liked S1 Lana, Lana when she was first with Jason, Lexmas Lana, and EVOL Lana. But the writers just can't resist the Clana, so I'm glad KK is escaping, and putting Lana out of their reach.

9) Lionel is bad. Magnificently so.

10) The Kents are good. Bo could be an ass at times, and Martha was clearly crazy for awhile there in S6, but Clark is the man he is today because of their love and humanity. I miss them both.

11) Love Jimmy, hate the Chimmy. He's not worthy of Chloe, and I hate who she becomes when she's with him. She forgives his fickleness, caters to his insecurities, and dumbs herself down so as not to humiliate him. But I honestly think Jimmy is adorable, and a decent enough guy, although he's kind of immature and a bit of a horndog. Take his love life out of the picture and let him be friends with Clark, and he'd be perfect.

12) I love Oliver Queen, and I love Justin Hartley even more. I get that Ollie's story was overshadowing Clark's for awhile there, but he was just so fun I didn't even mind. And I especially enjoyed the scenes Clark and Oliver shared. Clark needs more male friends, and Oliver not only knew his secret, but understood better than most his reasons for keeping it.

Well, that seems like more than enough of my view of things, which, of course, may all change by tomorrow. :) Care to share yours? I hope I haven't said anything to make you think we can no longer be friends, but if I have, or if you've been looking to cut me anyway, it's okay, I won't hold it against you. And if you made it all the way to the end, thanks for listening.

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44 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
lexii314 From: lexii314 Date: April 20th, 2008 03:12 am (UTC) (Link)
:)
You'll never loss me!!!
I haven't watched Thursday's episode yet. A lot of very strong opinions going around LJ. I'll watch it in the morning.
My brother warned me that I would love it. I know this means lots of Lex!!! So I'm excited. I might even make popcorn LOL!!!
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 09:54 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm glad to hear I haven't chased you away! :) I hope you enjoyed the episode as much as I did, I thought it was amazing. I watched it again today, and I'm even more impressed with Michael's performance. He is just awesome.
jeannev From: jeannev Date: April 20th, 2008 03:31 am (UTC) (Link)
I love that you put your opinions out there, and I love that you are open to having others express their opinions to you. I like to think of myself as the same way, though I do have to admit that if someone came to my journal to start hating on Clark, I'd probably be polite and nothing more.

For myself, I strive to be able to always keep my mind open to other opinions, and other ways to view the show. I don't have to agree with anothers opinion, but I like to believe I try to respect it.

Like you, I'm a TW fan, Clark fan, first and foremost. I do not 'ship anything on SV. In fact, I find myself becoming more anti-shipper these days because I find that its very rarely about Clark as a character as much as he's the prize that 'shipper groups pass around to award to their fav.

For the rundown:
The Clex dynamic is my favorite, though I actually like it dysfunctional, angsty and adverserial.

I love the Chlark friendship, but I think the romance ship has sailed.

I think ED and TW have chemistry, but with the way the show has written the Clois relationship on SV, I just haven't been able to visualize these 2 characters ending up together, and I find that frustrating.

I think Clana should never have reunited as a couple post her involvement with Lex.

And I also believe Alicia should come back for Clark. Sure, she was nuts, but somehow in 3 eps, they created a relationship I could write a dissertation on.

I didn't see the chemistry in Lexana, and I don't see the chemistry in Chlex. I do, however, find myself liking Lexois.

Chimmy makes me gag. I liked Jimmy with Kara better. I think AA and AM have anti-chemistry.

I couldn't love Ollie because I couldn't get over how his character was being propped at Clark's expense. I just don't think that should happen on this show. I do like JH though. He seems super cool.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 10:47 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm just fascinated to read your stance on everything! Thanks so much for commenting.

When you watch wonderful episodes like Descent, and Traveler, which didn't really have any relationship component either, how can you not be anti-shipper? The storytelling they do when they stay away from the 'ships, which of course with this show means when they stay away from the Clana, are just so much better, IMO. The Lana focus in Veritas pretty much ruined that episode for me.

I also think there are plenty of stories to be told without romance, captivating stories that could appeal to all viewers. Obviously Chloe is amazing without a focus on her love life (all the Chimmy stuff only detracts from her, seriously), and I still believe Lois's development into a serious reporter could be a great arc, because I don't think she's there yet. I don't need to see Clark in a relationship to enjoy the show.

I like the way you say AA and AM have anti-chemistry. LOL! That's a great way to put it.

I really felt like Oliver was almost a Clark substitute in S6. Clark's story was just one big stall for so much of the season, and I'm sure that was a directive from the top as a way to extend the life of the series. The action that shifted to Oliver, in many cases, could have been a story for Clark with just a few minor adjustments. But given that the TPTB were refusing to give me a Clark-centric season, I was glad the replacement was someone I liked so much. And yes, I realize that's settling in a very big way. :)

I'm glad we're not cookie cutter duplicates in our opinions, because I love the way you always open my eyes to new ideas, but I'm also glad I can always share my squee over Tom with you, because I know you love him just as much as I do, if not more.
From: super_robyn Date: April 20th, 2008 03:34 am (UTC) (Link)
Hey love! I love that you put all your Smallville musings into one post. So here I went, one by one, and said my piece (in fact, more than my piece, I think I might have rambled on a bit, so sorry bout that!).

1) I am right there with you, sister. Clark is above and beyond my favorite character. I also don't think I'm a Clark apologist because, to tell you the truth, I don't apologize for him. I just love him to bits, I watch him on my television screen, and I leave it at that. Because going into debates about whether or not Clark is this or that... I don't go there, because it ruins all the fun for me. Clark is a beautiful character, and I just can't WAIT til he takes that final step in becoming Superman. He's the reason I watch this show.

Needless to say, we don't even have to get into talking about Tom. Because, well, we'll be here all night.

2) Clex is one of those relationships that I never tire in watching. I've never really been into the Clex slash (I don't want it on the show, I don't see it on the show, but I likes me a Clex fic or two. Make sense? lol). I especially LOVED early series Clex. It was just so sweet and fun and loving.

3) MR owns us both! I loved him first (before Tom, yes don't hurt me LOL). I am going to regret admitting to this, but I actually had a notebook that I would just write and write and write in all about MR. Like... 22 pages, front and back. I was 9! Ok, more like 14. But I was head over heels in LOVE with MR. And if I'm being truthful, I still love the guy! I just don't write endlessly about him anymore. (I was kinda wanting to send him that notebook, but figured he would have me committed, so instead I just sent him a nice letter and he sent me an autographed pic! Hanging on my wall right now).

4) Agreed. She's my favorite female on the show, because she's a good, moral, strong, three dimensional character. Some may say that makes her "Saint Chloe" or a Mary Sue, but I don't really care. She's my fave!

5) GASP! ZOMG! *defriends* LMAO, totally kidding! I could never defriend you. I'm an all around Chlark lover, as you probably figured out by now. But I can see how people also don't like Chlark that way. But dude, I'm totally on board with Alicia coming back somehow. I absolutely LOVED them together. The bed scene that Jonathan disrupted? HOT. That honeymoon scene? Hottest thing I've seen on the show, to be honest with you.

6) Yep, I said pretty much just what you said here. And oh yeah, I think Michael wouldn't be too fazed by it. LOL.

7-11) Big time yep, all around.

12) I absolutely love Oliver Queen/ Justin Hartley. He just... owns me. I am owned by all the hot men on this show, and I am perfectly FINE with that!

And now... I think I am off to go watch some Clalicia on DVD.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 11:18 am (UTC) (Link)
God, I love your outlook on everything. You always make me laugh! :)

Clark is a beautiful character, and I just can't WAIT til he takes that final step in becoming Superman. He's the reason I watch this show.

Exactly. And Tom portrays him perfectly. It's the reason I still get so excited for every new episode.

I had no idea you had a history with MR! He truly is impossible not to love, I think. He just seems like he has the biggest heart in all the world. I think your notebook story is sweet, and I think he would have been touched by it, actually. Too cool that he sent you an autographed pic!

I'm glad you're not defriending me! :) I actually used to be quite the Chlarker myself, but I would get so anxious while watching the show, looking for clues and signs that there was something there between Clark and Chloe, that I couldn't just sit back and enjoy the story. Just my own personal quirk. I resolved to stop 'shipping altogether, and then I read a Chlollie fanfic that made me realize all my fantasies could be fulfilled in fic, and the show could do whatever. It's just what works for me, that's all.

I also like how Justin so graciously gives us all those shirtless scenes and pics. He's so thoughtful that way! :)

I never get tired of watching Clalicia on DVD. Did I mention they were hot? LOL!
jaimsie From: jaimsie Date: April 20th, 2008 03:41 am (UTC) (Link)
Well it has been ages since I've watched an episode of Smallville but I wanted to say, that I don't think you are stepping on anyones toes or in jeopardy of upsetting anyone with this post.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 11:23 am (UTC) (Link)
Oh, you're so sweet to stop by and reassure me! Thanks so much! *hugs* Can you tell I'm still feeling a little vulnerable after everything that's happened? *sighs* It gets better all the time, though.

New episode this week! It seems like forever since Jus In Bello. I'm excited!
h2osprincess From: h2osprincess Date: April 20th, 2008 03:47 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeah. I have to say this is the first fandom I've seen where the shippers are practically at war and they're not kidding around. Shipper wars were a joke in Farscape fandom, so SV is a culture shock for me.

I know some if it is the demographics of the audience and the writers' attempts to string everyone along so they maintain the audience they splintered, but it's still a little freaky to watch people get vicious about it.

You're never going to lose me just because we only agree on some things. The only area we actually seem to disagree on is the Chlark chemistry, anyway, and I can accept that not everyone sees the same thing.

Chloe is *much* better for her status as an original character. I just hate to see the showrunners diminish their creation to shoehorn iconic names into her roles. Lex is made of awesome, too, when he's not being subverted for Clana.

I'll be surprised if the writing team can get beyond a seven-season Lana obsession, but I do so wish they'd given KK the chance to run with EVOL!Lana. She pulled it off so chillingly.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 11:49 am (UTC) (Link)
Farscape is love. No other fictional couple could ever make me feel half of what I felt for John and Aeryn. Talk about a 'ship for the ages!

I hate the way they're always throwing everyone a bone on Smallville. It just makes the writers seem like a bunch of weasels. If you have an agenda, fine, just put it out there and own it! And then let the chips fall where they may. But instead they try to keep everyone watching.

I'm glad you'll still be around! And I truly am open to anything, so if Chlark happens, I'll celebrate with you! :)

I thought KK rocked as EVOL!Lana. I would have watched more of that story line with pleasure. But I'm also looking forward to a Lanaless Smallville. I actually have high hopes for S8, although the whole question of whether or not AM is coming back is stressing me out big time.
starry_dawn From: starry_dawn Date: April 20th, 2008 05:25 am (UTC) (Link)
I love that the 'shipper stuff bothered you enough that you put all your feelings down in one post. You're so cute! :) Okay, here are my thoughts on the matter:

1) ITA on the TW-love. I'm a big fan, someone who's been saying he's a great actor right from Season 1 and I love that offscreen, he seems like a great, intelligent, funny guy who likes to keep to his business. Of course, it means we don't get as much news about him as say MR, who's more of an extrovert, but I don't like him any less for that. :)

Re: Clark, we differ a bit. I'd be lying if I say I've always found him worth cheering for, because there are times I've felt they're doing Clark completely, completely wrong on the show. There are times I just can't wank for him, and those are usually the times I get really frustrated with the show, because if you can't get your main character right, what's the point? But I should say that despite all those frustrations and annoyances, I've liked Clark more often than not and especially in recent episodes, he's started to regain my trust. (But it's a constant battle with him! :P)

2) Same here. I don't 'ship them together, but I like the HoYay for pure enjoyment purposes. And I think their relationship was one of the best things about the show, but that the show has ruined it too much for it to remain my favourite relationship.

3) Agreed, even though I tend to use "nurture" as a way of dismissing a lot of Lex's actions. ;)

4) Totally agree. You just put it all in there so beautifully, I have nothing more to say. :)

5) I'm a Chlarker, but not a Chloiser. I want Chloe to remain who she is and I think she's an important enough character to be remembered without having to turn her into an iconic figure. I think she and Clark have wonderful chemistry, though, so we differ a bit there. And I'm one of those people who disliked Alicia and every episode she was in (maybe there was chemistry, but it wasn't the kind I liked) so there's another difference in opinion!

6) Oh, totally agree. I can't even bring myself to read Clex slash - it just makes me really uncomfortable. That's why I stay away from all kinds of slash fiction.

7) I agree with you for the most part here. I think TW and ED have chemistry, and I think they look gorgeous together (I think it's the height :P), but I'm not a Cloiser either. To be really simple, I think Lois would've been a great character had she been anyone but Lois. I think that on her own, she's fantastic - she's a bit dumb at times, but her heart's in the right place, she loves her family and friends and she makes Clark laugh like no one else can, which gives her a gazillion bonus points right there. But she's not what Lois should be, IMO and that's where they went really wrong.

8) Well said, and totally agree.

9) Yes. Yes, he is. :D

10) Also agreed. I miss them too!

11) Again, you hit the nail on the head for me. I feel exactly the same way, couldn't have put it better myself.

12) Yes! Also agreed. I never thought the show was becoming GreenArrowVille, and I always enjoyed what Ollie brought to the show in terms of kicking Clark's butt into action. I'm not above thinking that even Superman needs a little encouragement once in a while (especially when he's not even Superman yet) and I think Ollie did a great job of it.

Phew! Sorry for the extra-long comment, but it was just too fun a topic to pass up! :)
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 12:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint on everything! I loved reading it. Some of it I already knew, because of conversations we've had, but I learned a lot of new things, too.

We have a really interesting combination of things on which we do and don't agree. Obviously we don't need to agree on everything to have a great time talking about Smallville! We should compare notes on Supernatural sometime, too, just for curiosity's sake. :)
lilbreck From: lilbreck Date: April 20th, 2008 05:49 am (UTC) (Link)
Given what I've seen of a couple of my other fandoms {Buffy, Angel, and Harry Potter}, the viciousness of the shipper and character wars in no way shocks me. I kinda wish it did, you know what I mean?

While there are some things we disagree about {I'm a Chlarker and a Chloiser}, given that you aren't rabid in your views of the show, I don't see how I could ever stop reading your journal.

While I adore TW and love Clark, I've got to say that Chloe is my favorite character. I'd love to see Chlois on Smallville, but I'd never want it to really spill into the comics. Unless they do an Elseworld based on the show, then I'd be all for it. As for the Clark and Lex relationship, it's the reason I first started watching the show, and it's part of the reason I haven't left. TW and MR work great together, and their scenes just pop.

I love Lex still because of the way MR plays him. He gives you the sense that Lex does what he does because he believes he is protecting the world and it's people. He's a determined man, doing all the wrong things for all the right reasons. He's an infinitely complicated villain, and it's why I've always loved him in the comics I've read.

As for the chemistry between Alicia and Clark, I so loved it. It broke my heart when she died.

I have to say, I actually enjoyed Lana at the same points you say you liked her. Now if only they could have stuck with at least one of those points, that would have been fantastic.

Honestly, I'll forgive and love Lionel no matter what for one simple reason: John Glover. The man owns my soul.

Honestly, I could go on and on, but the comment would get far too long. One thing I would like to say is that I'm not really all that concerned with how they mess with the mythos, as long as they stay true to the core and heart of the story and it's players. That's part of why I'm not bothered in the least by the thought that Chlois would totally change iconic Lois' backstory, because it wouldn't change who she is. It's the same reason why I'm not bothered by Lois knowing Clark this early in his life. When they meet doesn't change who they are.

However, how they've written this Lois, simply because it changes too much of who iconic Lois Lane is supposed to be. I think I became a firm supporter of the Chlois theory when it sunk in that they were not going to be correcting all the mistakes they've made with Smallville's Lois.

Have I bored you yet?
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 12:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
Have you bored me?! I'm riveted!

I was a huge Buffy and Angel fan, but I didn't even know about fandom back then. I just had one friend with whom I used to watch the shows! :)

I'm glad we'll still be friends. We certainly agree that Chloe is awesome! :)

He gives you the sense that Lex does what he does because he believes he is protecting the world and it's people. He's a determined man, doing all the wrong things for all the right reasons.

Exactly. I love watching TW and MR together. MR is the first Lex Luthor I've ever liked. His complexity is fascinating to me, and MR makes him so sympathetic I can't help but care about him. Every other incarnation of Lex I've known has just been the big bad to me, the guy I love to hate. I haven't read comic books since I was little, though, so I don't have a strong understanding of Lex from the comics. That's an area I'd like to delve into more.

I really wish Alicia could have stayed around longer. She and Clark were wonderful together! Her death broke my heart, too.

I absolutely love reading all your insights and getting a glimpse of who you are, at least the Smallville you. Thanks so much for taking the time to read and comment!

Edited at 2008-04-21 05:12 pm (UTC)
ophelia_77 From: ophelia_77 Date: April 20th, 2008 07:07 am (UTC) (Link)
WOW! You just hit the nail on the head so many times we might have built a house.

I so strongly agreed with many of your opinions that even I was shocked.

I am not a Clexer either. I just can't be. It feels wrong. Not slash in general. Just this slash doesn't work for me.

As always you bring a intellectual mark to the show we love so much! I love seeing it from your perspective and having a healthy debate about it as we've done before. It makes it all so much more interesting!

tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 05:20 pm (UTC) (Link)
That's interesting to know we have a lot in common when it comes to Smallville! Somehow I always seem to bring our discussions back around to, "Tom's so pretty! Guh." LOL!

For me it's the Supernatural slash that feels wrong. I can't do the Wincest, and I'm not comfortable with any kind of RPS.

Double new episodes this week! *bounces*

I hope you're feeling better. *hugs*
From: seacrystal Date: April 20th, 2008 07:13 am (UTC) (Link)
I've disagreed with my fellow Lois fans and Cloisers plenty of times actually. :D Being a part of any fandom, I think it's inevitable for everyone to have diverging opinions all the time. Heck, it just would be NO FUN at all if everyone just shares a brain on everything.

As long as everyone can respect each other, I think it's a very healthy and encouraging thing. And I've learnt a lot when it comes to expressing my opinions on the boards too, I used to be very defensive, prone to attacks and tend to take everything the wrong way -- not a very nice poster, actually. :p

As for Lois and Clois, may I offer a different perspective?

I freely admit that they could have written Lois much better, I don't care for the barn door epiphany and the Grois thing was disgraceful. But just like Clark and Lex and everyone else have their own less than stellar moments and characterizations on the show, Lois is no exception. In no way I'm saying that two wrongs make a right, but from my POV as the audience, if I cut slack for one character, then I'd have to do so for all the others. If I don't cut someone any slack, then no one would get it as well.

As for Clois, well I don't think anyone would jump ship anytime soon. :D Everyone has valid reasons on why they think their girl is the best for Clark and vice versa. I recognize Clark's chemistry with everyone on the show, and I think he has a great multi-shippability (is that even a word?) -- just like Lex, or Bruce in the comics. Suffice to say that I love SVClois like crazy, and they're actually the reason why I joined the internet fandom in the first place. They're not just my favourite incarnation of the couple, but among the best onscreen couples I've seen.

My pet peeve is when some people just lump all SVCloisers as not being able to think for themselves on why they love SVClois and claim it's simply because everyone knows how the story ends anyway. For the record, I actually don't care at all for the Supois/Clois from the movies (including the animated movie Doomsday, but The New Frontier is fine with me) and the animated series, I usually like them more as simply just friends -- although I tend to change opinions a lot about the animated series' Clois.

And as far as Lois is concerned, I think she does have a very high opinion of Clark and genuinely loves him as her friend. Lois confides in Clark a lot and he's probably the only person she had fully let all her walls down for. You can see just how much she'd miss him if he was truly gone, like in Kara. Clark and Lois doesn't spend much time together onscreen, but it still just comes off as completely natural to me. They just have different dynamics from the other relationships that they both have with other people, and I really like that.

Plus, I also like how Lois is the only girl who has actually respected Clark when it comes to his secret, she was fully aware that there was something big that he was keeping from everyone, and yet she has never nagged or pushed him about it. She has never guilt tripped him, threw in his face about secrets and lies or put him in difficult situations to make him admit the truth, she just let it be and chalked it up to him being weird or something. She understands her boundaries as his friend, and I believe that's the one thing that sets her miles apart from the other girls.

Okay, that turned out to be WAY LONGER than what I've intended to so I'll just stop here. :p Anyway, I really appreciate you for this very honest post and trust me, I absolutely have no intentions of going away just because we're going to disagree on stuff. You're stuck with me forever. :D
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 05:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks so much for commenting! You've given me a lot of food for thought.

if I cut slack for one character, then I'd have to do so for all the others

That's a good point. I think I do make more allowances for Clark, to be honest. And somehow I'm more sensitive about how they portray Lois, because as a woman myself, I identify more strongly with her. It's as if I take what I see as her deficiencies as a personal affront or something.

I can see where it would be insulting to have someone imply you like a certain 'ship basically because you have no imagination. Please. And your genuine admiration for and appreciation of Smallville's Lois does actually make me take a second look at my complaints about her. You're helping me remember some of the scenes with her that I do like. I just got around to listening to last week's episode of SHoE last night, and the guys were talking about 'ships on the show. Derek brought up a number of memorable Clois scenes from the show, and each one was one I had enjoyed as well.

I still think the writers need to read some comic books to better understand the iconic Lois Lane. I'd really like to see them avoid any further missteps like the Grois situation.

Thanks again for the comment, and for agreeing that we can disagree and still be friends!
frelling_tralk From: frelling_tralk Date: April 20th, 2008 02:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
I hope it's okay to friend you, I really enjoyed your review for Descent, and found it gave me a more charitable view of the other characters responses to Lionel :)

I know exactly what you mean about this fandom. It drives me crazy when people simply dislike a character or an aspect of the show, and then some of the characters fans actually attack other fans as people for it. At this point I'm used to getting outright disliked just based on my admitting to be a Chloiser, and fandom really shouldn't be like that.

I totally agree on Clark/Alicia, I adored Alicia! And with Chlark, I've always thought they would have excellent romantic chemistry if the writers would actually give them a chance. Clana were supposed to be the couple to root for in season 1, but with Crush/Obscura/Tempest, I soon thought that Chlark would have been far better as the high school sweethearts. They just seem to enjoy one anothers company more, and Allison brings out a really charming side of Tom. And I adored the romance of the Vessel kiss, and still kick the writers for not following up on that one. But I have been frustrated with season 7 mostly just having Chlark scenes all blend into one, with the two of them googling together. When I see how passionless Clana are as well, it really makes me mourn the lost potential of Chlark.

And I'm also a Clexer, although I probably stopped outright slashing them sometime in season 5. But I do still enjoy their iconic moments together
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 06:34 pm (UTC) (Link)
Of course it's okay, welcome! I friended you back. And I'm glad you enjoyed my review, thanks for the kind feedback!

I really like the freedom fanfic gives me to enjoy all pairings. :) When it comes to the show, I've had to let go of any 'shipper hopes I used to have and just roll with the punches, just to preserve my peace of mind.

As far as fandom goes, I'm just glad that so far I've managed not to piss anyone off, because when the wank starts, it's not pretty. I don't know why some fans lash out at other fans, when they could be sharing the squee instead. Whatever 'ship someone likes, don't we all like the pretty? :)

I certainly have seen incredible chemistry between Clark and Chloe on occasion, I just get more of a "just friends" vibe from them lately. I'm disappointed that we've never seen a full-on mutual, non-mind whammied, romantic kiss between them. Even the Vessel kiss, as wonderful as it was, was totally initiated by Chloe. We came close in Tempest, but of course then that all went away. As you say, the writers never gave them a chance.

I always liked Alicia, even though she was crazy. :) And the chemistry was scorching! I was totally bummed when they killed her off.

Scenes between Clark and Lex are my most favorite of all. All the aspects of their chemistry are a joy to watch, but the Clexy moments are just delicious, and I remain convinced the boys play them up on purpose. I love them for that.

Thanks again for commenting! I'm happy to see you in my journal!
kpjmm From: kpjmm Date: April 20th, 2008 05:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Wow! You pretty much put down what I think about the show and the characters (but for Lois, Clois and I'm not that big a TW fan). It's scary! Ha!
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 06:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm glad we have some things in common! Writing this post actually helped me clarify some things in my own head, and it feels great to have put it all out there. Thanks for your comment!
goodvibe From: goodvibe Date: April 21st, 2008 03:12 pm (UTC) (Link)

My thoughts (because they're so damn long) - part I

I don't mind a difference of opinion at all. It's silly to expect that everyone watching the show will be doing so with the same viewing lenses. Everyone's going to be coming with their own set of preferences. And I think that's perfectly valid. I believe the problem starts arising when an opinion is stated as ::fact:: because therein lies a whiff of "i'm right, and you're wrong." And that's not cool, IMO. But so long as you're respecting where the other person is coming from, whilst disagreeing at the same time? That's perfectly cool.

So, FWIW, I'll do a run down on your points:

1. Proud Clark fan here. He is far and above, my absolute favorite character on the show. TW, I think is a terribly underrated actor and has really proven his mettle as an anazing leading man who has carried this show for so many years. I'll defend Clark like crazy, but I'd like to think of myself as not an apologist either. I can see where he's pissed me off, and I'll call him on it. I don't need my favorite character to be perfect.

2. The Clex is my favorite dynamic of the show. I think this is what should be the focus of the show. The actors have superb chemistry. The hoyyay is a fun subtext, but I don't buy into it with any serious thought---mostly anyways. ;-)

3. MR is a very talented actor, who has for the most part, done Lex tremendous justice. Inspite of the sometimes bad writing.

4. I love season 3 Chloe, but am not too fond of season 1 and 2 Chloe. And I was mostly bored or indifferent about her in seasons 4 and 5. I've been mostly alright with her in the past couple seasons, inspite of the IMO clunky writing. I like to think I'm fair in that if I love something a character said or did, I'll very wholeheartedly appreciate it. Anyone who's read my reviews or thoughts on the eps would know this. I'll never shy away from appreciating Chloe, as I have done in several reviews, both recent and old. But I won't hesitate to point out something I didn't like either. For the record, I think AM is a wonderful actor, who does more than the best with the material she's given.

5. I dont Chlois, nor do I think it will ever happen. IMHO, the theory is selective in the traits it applies to "iconic" Lois. I would never disrespect anyone who subscribes to the theory though. Far from it. I would just hope that it not be shoved down my throat as fact, or the "only right way to go." I think romantic Chlark has had it's moments, but for the past few seasons in particular I'm just not seeing that kind of chemistry there. But I do think AM and TW are very good in their scenes together, and have a very natural, friendly chemistry which reflects in their onscreen relationship. For the most part I really enjoy the friendship dynamic and am very glad to see such a loyal friend as Chloe in Clark' corner. I think they both adore each other and think the world of each other.

6. Not in the hoyyay sense, necessarily but as a dynamic? Amazing.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 21st, 2008 11:32 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: My thoughts (because they're so damn long) - part I

Thank you for your lovely, long comment! I really enjoyed reading it all!

I think we agree completely on the boys. :) And I do so appreciate that you see Tom as a talented, underrated actor, as do I. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and it's cool if people don't agree with me, but I like having a few friends with whom I can gush. :)

I wasn't too crazy about Chloe in S2 when she was unreasonably jealous and bitter. It seemed like they were trying to make her unlikeable on purpose! Her friendship with Clark has come a long way since then. And Allison is probably about 90% of why I like Chloe so much.

It's interesting what you say about Lois Lane's iconic traits, because I've thought about that, too. I don't see Chloe as a perfect fit for ILL. The biggest reason I don't subscribe to the Chlois theory, though, is I think AlMiles have stated most emphatically that it's not going to happen, and it's clear to me that Erica Durance's character isn't going anywhere (and I don't want her to). I think she enjoys wide acceptance across the broad spectrum of fandom, and she is Smallville's Lois. I just think the show continues to throw the Chloisers a bone now and then to keep them watching and hoping. Which stinks, BTW.

I think there was a time that would have been perfect for romantic Chlark, where they could have enjoyed a fun relationship and eventually parted friends, but the Clana obsession made that impossible, and it's too late now. I love the role Chloe plays in Clark's life, and I don't think it diminishes her at all that there is no romance. I actually think it's more unique and more special that way. Just don't show me Chloe pining for what might have been. And don't give Chloe a consolation prize like Jimmy Olsen! Yuck.
goodvibe From: goodvibe Date: April 21st, 2008 03:13 pm (UTC) (Link)

Pert II

7. I'm a purist too, who in principle ::still:: believes Lois should never have been brought on. It took me a fair bit to warm up to the character but I have. I think there are a lot of faults, mostly the inconsistency with the character is treated. And I think there are eps where she's flat out not needed. The subplot with Julian was a disaster. But, when she's written well, I enjoy her very much. She's like a breath of fresh air. I love her loyalty, her generally ballsy approach to things and the fact that when she gets into a job, whether it be as campaign manager, COS or investigative journo, she really gets into it. I think ED is terrific and does more than good with the material she's given. I'm open to Clois. I think they have good chemistry, and have had some really lovely moments but I hate it when Lois is overly anatagonistic to Clark. Thankfully, those moments seem to be few and far between these days. I'm not a shipper though, in that I'd rather not see any full blown 'ship because frankly, they're not handled well on this show at.all. But I like Clois as friends and dont mind the rare flirty moment.

8. I like KK. I think she's moreorless a capable actor. Clana can and have had good chemistry sometimes. But I'm not a fan of the character or 'ship, overall. But I don't think they're the devil incarnate either, heh. ;-)

9. Despite all the ambiguity, love Lionel. And JG.

10. I'm alright with the Kents. They've both had their douchey moments but I think along with Clark, they shared a lovely family dynamic / chemistry.

11. I'm alright with Jimmy. I think more of an effort should be made to have more scenes with Clark and some of his scenes with Lois are enjoyable. But I ::hate:: the romantic BS. So unnecessary, IMO, and boring. Chimmy does ::nothing:: for me and doesn't do either character any favors.

12. Love JH, and I'm mostly OK with Ollie. I think he has good chemistry with Clark, and he's a fun addition - but in the appropriate doses.

That's it from me. I apologize for taking so much space but I figured if you were so honest and forthright, I should return the favor. I hope to be able to continue reading your thoughts and comments on SV,and I hope you'll feel the same way about mine. Disagreements on certain points aside, I see no reason why we can't accept a different POV, yet still respect what the other has to say. :-)
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 22nd, 2008 12:00 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Pert II

I'll be perfectly happy if we don't ever see Clark in a relationship again on Smallville (presuming he will eventually get out of the one with Lana). Sure, hint at what's to come, but let's dispense with the romance and focus on Clark and his destiny.

Lois's loyalty is the one quality I adore about her on Smallville. I loved her in Gemini for that reason. And I've thought Erica Durance is a peach from day one. She has a wonderful attitude, she works tirelessly for the show on the publicity circuit, and she makes Lois fun. In the S6 Companion she made it clear she loves this character, and wants to do her justice. I guess I just hope that if they really do focus more on Lois in S8, that means they'll also write her better.

I would love to see Jimmy in more scenes with Clark. It's still weird to me that he and Clark are the same age, but factor in Jimmy's immaturity, and the classic dynamic could still work. :)

Please don't apologize, I really enjoyed reading your comments, and not because I happen to agree with a lot that you say! LOL! I love the way you think, and the way you express yourself.
jude_judith82 From: jude_judith82 Date: April 24th, 2008 11:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
I read this the other day and meant to comment. Basically I think it's cool that you pretty much put your opinions out there. This past week I was so drained with all the bickering which I may add I was very surprised by that I appreciate someone putting their opinions down in a respectful manner. I may come back and give my opinions on your 12. That is if I get some of my brain back LOL.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 24th, 2008 11:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks for the comment! I know what you mean about being drained. I have never discussed an episode as much as I have Descent, or tried so hard to understand another person's perspective on an episode I loved. I am talked out, commented out, and any further pondering just makes my head hurt. My reaction to the episode has pretty much been reduced, a la Buffy, to, "Boy pretty. Death bad." I'm exhausted! :)
acampbell From: acampbell Date: April 26th, 2008 03:06 am (UTC) (Link)
All so interesting! I'd like to do a post like this, too.

It entirely bums me out to see people being nasty to each other over 'ships, and fandom stuff. As much as I revere and realize the value of our imaginative fantasy lives, I hate to see fans bash other fans over fictional characters. We're talking real people, guys. It's really stung, on occasion, to be bumped from f-lists because I wasn't pro-Lexana enough, or because I don't like Lana.

I really like a good discussion (as you've noticed) and I guess we all have our idiosyncrasies when it comes to such discussions. But, like you, I often feel pressured to soften or sanitize stuff to keep from making people mad.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 26th, 2008 03:29 am (UTC) (Link)
It entirely bums me out to see people being nasty to each other over 'ships, and fandom stuff. As much as I revere and realize the value of our imaginative fantasy lives, I hate to see fans bash other fans over fictional characters. We're talking real people, guys.

Exactly. Not to be completely trite, but can't we all just get along? And the spoilers for Apocalypse seem to be bringing out the worst in people. I know some of it is the age/maturity of the antagonists, but some of it, I'm sure, is perfectly reasonable people losing their perspective.

We wouldn't bash each other for liking chicken instead of steak, and then go around insulting and ridiculing chicken, so why do these fictional relationships inspire us to lash out? :P

I can't think of anything you could ever say that would make me feel differently about you. I love the conversations we have, whether they consist of "Hell, yeah," or "Hell, no!" :)
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