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I worship at the television altar
Smallville 9x16 - Escape
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From: (Anonymous) Date: April 8th, 2010 03:36 pm (UTC) (Link)

New Poster. :)

Tariel, I'm just a random fan of your reviews. I don't have LJ so I apologize. But I follow your reviews every week and I enjoy what you have to say!

A few things..

@Tasabian, I have to be honest that I disagree that Lois being nervous and hyper regressed her to a teenager. You're right. One of her biggest strengths is that she is able to overcome things by diving right into a situation. Which is exactly what she DID in this episode. She was extremely nervous with Clark the first night in the bedroom. This scene rang very true to me and I didn't find it teenager behavior at all. Maybe it's because I remember what it was like the first time I slept in the same bed with my husband (before he was actually my husband) and how nervous I felt that night. It's also canon that Lois always feels more nervous around Clark and loses some of her edge in intimate situations. That's true in the comics, the Superman movies and on LnC. Her strong facade is sometimes just that--a facade. It might have been easier for her to keep it up with Oliver because I don't think her feelings for him were of the same intensity as her feelings for Clark. The next day though, Lois took matters into her own hands. She put on that sexy Scottish sex outfit and tried to ambush Clark in the shower with body wash. :) If that's not the definition of not beating around the bush then I'm not really sure what is. I felt like I totally understand where Lois was coming from. She realized that the mood had died the first night and that the two of them had let nerves get the best of them. (Which DOES happen to couples all the time.) Then, she put on the outfit probably as a way to lighten up and try to break the ice. She probably figured that it would make Clark laugh and that they would relax and have a little fun together. It was a very Lois thing to do, in my opinion.

Second, I totally agree that the conversation with the Blur was over the top. I think part of that was that there appeared to be an issue with the audio looping. But I do understand why she was so anxious to help him. If you recall, Lois expressed at the end of "Persuasian" that she felt like she had screwed up by telling the world in "Idol" that she knew the Blur. She admitted to Clark that she felt like she had blown it by not keeping the secret. Yes, Clark reassured her. But I think it's reasonable that Lois may feel like she owes it to the Blur to not screw up this time and to help in any way that she can. I admit the dialouge could have been better---but I think the intent makes sense given the previous canon about Lois' guilt over the Blur.

Third, as far as the kisses---they are working for me. But I to think that the directors are almost "over managing" Tom and Erica right now because they are trying so hard to get this relationship right. The tough part is that sometimes I feel like Clark and Lois can't win with the fans. Everyone is so hyper critical over this relationship, dissecting it under a microscope. Has there ever been another relationship on this show that people were this critical of? I don't think so. People were critical of Clana because the relationship itself was proving to be damaging to Clark as a character---but the little moments and kisses of their relationship were dissected under a microscope like this. Can you imagine the pressure that this show must feel with the Clois relationship? 70 years of history, blockbuster films, a very popular 90's TV show, an animated series, hundreds of graphic novels...and 5 years alone on THIS show of buildup for fans. The biggest problem right now with the Clark and Lois kisses, in my opinion, is that the Directors aren't just letting them go. Tom and Erica steam up the screen together. Yes, we know that kisses are going to be interupted. But I actually think they have overdone the interuptions with Clois. They need to just allow their chemistry to blaze as opposed to always trying to find ways to interupt it. It's time to just let them embrace the passion. And this relationship has proven that it can stand the test of time. So just let Tom and Erica do what they do.

Thanks for all your very insightful comments and reviews! It's a pleasure reading them!

tasabian From: tasabian Date: April 9th, 2010 12:11 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: New Poster. :)

She put on that sexy Scottish sex outfit and tried to ambush Clark in the shower with body wash. :) If that's not the definition of not beating around the bush then I'm not really sure what is.
Erica looked cute in the outfit - but who puts on an outfit to take a shower? And she didn't know they were going to a Scottish B & B so how did she know to pack something like that? That's exactly the kind of illogic that makes the scenes seem forced, not sexy. The little moment where Lois watches Clark make the bed? That was sexy and felt "real". But then it was right back to awkwardness and forced wackiness.

Chemistry is hugely subjective. I'm not a 'shipper (except for Clex) I've definitely seen sparks between Lois & Clark, but for me it's usually in the episodes where they're working together, not in the comedy eps, which always seem to try way too hard and don't let the chemistry just happen. (Hex & Warrior are exceptions - I think Bryan Miller gets the tone just right.)

Edited at 2010-04-09 12:12 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 9th, 2010 01:51 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: New Poster. :)

I totally agree chemistry is subjective. I see it constantly with Clark and Lois but it doesn't bother me if other people don't. I know what I see and I'm secure with that. Just as I always found the idea of Clex as totally unappealing and yet I know and respect that others were really intrigued by it. Different strokes and all. The bedroom scene rang true for me because its very similar to what I experienced with the man who is now my husband. I completely understood the awkwardness and nervousness because I have so been there with the man who was my Prince Charming. Nervousness with someone you love doesn't mean you aren't being adult. Even adults can find themselves completely nervous with the right person. On another board, several of us who are married were talking about how much we related to that bedroom scene--that desperate desire to make youe partner comfortable and the insane nerves about even laying next to someone you love that much for the first time knowing in your heart that they are "the one" and everything scary that goes along with that. What seemed awkward to you rang very very true and realistic for me. And that's ok. As you said, this is all very subjective. As for the Scottish outfit...I don't think she was planning on wearing it in the shower. I thought it was cute and a very Lois thing to do. Its something I can imagine the comics Lois doing because she's just kind of ballsy and quirky like that. I don't care where she got the outfit. In reality, its probably something she could have crafted herself rather quicky. It didn't look that complicated and we know the inn had a gift shop. She did it for Clark. He's expressed on several occasions now that he likes her costumes. I thought it was a sassy thing to do for him. Outfits worn for sexual foreplay (lingerie included) are made to be taken off. This one was really no different. But its cool! We can agree to disagree. Tariel, thanks for letting me chat!! I appreciate it.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 10th, 2010 09:31 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: New Poster. :)

I know what I see and I'm secure with that.

I think this is the key. Everyone is free to see this show and its relationships in their own way, and it's okay to have different opinions. Your viewpoint is right for you, and that's all that matters. Unfortunately some people seem to feel the need to ridicule or take offense at opinions that are different from their own. :(

I like Lois's costumes. I think they're fun, and Erica looks gorgeous in them!
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 10th, 2010 07:33 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: New Poster. :)

That's exactly the kind of illogic that makes the scenes seem forced, not sexy.

I have to agree. You can hardly get lost in the moment when your brain is sending up red flags about how nonsensical it all is. Then all those elements that are supposed to enhance the mood only detract from it, and take you right out of the scene.

The little moment where Lois watches Clark make the bed? That was sexy and felt "real".

I loved that, his careful attention to every detail, and her tender regard as she took it all in. Watching Clark through her eyes made me fall in love with him all over again. Which only brings me back to how crazy it was that she didn't jump him the second they got back to their room. Any conversation about Chloe and Oliver could have waited until they were basking in the afterglow. ;)

I've definitely seen sparks between Lois & Clark, but for me it's usually in the episodes where they're working together, not in the comedy eps, which always seem to try way too hard and don't let the chemistry just happen.

While I have loved the funny scenes between Clark and Lois this season (the Crossfire morning show, Clark going through Lois's closet in Warrior), I don't see them as romantic so much as just hilarious. :) I will admit that I completely swoon over the scenes where Clark is direct and assertive in expressing his feelings for Lois (the farmhouse scene in Rabid, asking Lois about their relationship at the end of Pandora, the Conspiracy "hello"). Tom personifies SEXY in those! But for mutual chemistry, I prefer scenes where Clark and Lois are working on a story, and the current that runs between them is humming along under the surface, to ones where they're on a date, or being overtly flirty and romantic. Actually, what comes to mind first for me are S8 episodes, rather than S9 ones. But I liked the little scene in Persuasion where Clark boosted Lois up to spy on the RAO towers, for example, the way they worked together to investigate the zombie story in Rabid, and their field trip to look into the Fake!Blur in Idol.

I love the way Bryan Q. Miller writes both Clark and Lois. He, of anyone on the staff, gets Clark, and just as importantly, the superhero he will one day be.
tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 10th, 2010 12:43 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: New Poster. :)

Hi! *waves* Thanks so much for your comment, and for your kind words about my reviews! I'm sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this. LJ has been VERY wonky the past few days, and has already eaten two attempts of mine. Let's hope the third time is the charm, and that this one goes through! :)

The bedroom scene did work for me, and I do agree that Lois is different with Clark than with anyone else, as he is with her. I don't necessarily think Lois had a facade with Oliver, at least not in private. I actually think the reason Lois disarms Ollie so thoroughly is because she's so honest with him, especially when she's talking ABOUT him. :) And we certainly saw her at her most vulnerable with him as well. I just think their dynamic was different: more playful, and not as deep. It was love, but not true love, if that makes sense.

I do think the Scottish lassie costume was a bit contrived, but not because I thought it was inappropriate or OOC. It was cute, and I loved Clark's reaction to it, but it really didn't make a lot of sense to me in the context of the episode. Where did she get the outfit? Why head into the bathroom in costume if Clark was already in the shower, and she planned to jump in with him, bath gel in hand? It's not a huge deal, but logistically it was just off, and there were a lot of details like that in the episode. It smacks of careless writing to me.

You make a good point about the audio looping in the Fake!Blur scene, I noticed that, too. But I counted, and she told him six separate times that she would help him. Overkill much, show? :) Your explanation makes a lot of sense, though, thank you for that. I just worry that this storyline won't shine the most flattering light on Lois if she's so easily fooled by Zod. I kind of like the idea that deep down, on some subconscious level, Lois already knows that the Blur is Clark, and therefore would realize that Zod is a fake fairly quickly. It just depends on how it plays out.

Everyone is so hyper critical over this relationship, dissecting it under a microscope.

I didn't realize that. I hope you don't think that's what I'm doing, I don't mean to. You're so right that this relationship comes with a lot of pressure because of the history of the characters! So many people come to Smallville with preconceived notions of who all the characters are and how they should act, and that is especially true for Clark and Lois. I never meant to suggest that the show should change the Clois kisses somehow because they don't work for me, of course, but I love your idea of just letting the actors find the passion of this couple. We've seen how hot they can be, both separately and together, and I'm all for letting them fly free!

Thanks again for taking the time to comment. I hope I'll see you here again!
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 12th, 2010 03:32 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: New Poster. :)

Hi:) Thanks for the reply. Great to hear from you. I post quite a bit over on the ShoE homepage as MJ and I also post on DI and Superverses. I do appreciate your reviews because I honestly feel like you give all the characters a chance and you try to stay objective and give all the characters the benefit of the doubt. I admit up front that I'm a huge fan of the Clark/Lois relationship BUT I consider myself a Clark Kent fan first and foremost. I want every plotline on this show to revolve around him and not the other way around. I always try to look at this show through Clark's perspective. Clois tends to make Clark look really good so I find it's easy to support that relationship. I also find that in Lois-centric episodes, Clark is ALWAYS at the center. I always approach an episode wanting to see Clark succeed, be validated when he's right and be HAPPY. I personally hate the term "shipper" because I think it misrepresents why so many of us support relationships like Clark and Lois. We actually talk about this all the time over on Superverses. We don't consider ourselves shippers. We are mythos fans and fans of Clark Kent and Superman first. We love the characters as individuals first and together second. We support the relationship that seems to have made him the most happy but we are just as happy (if not happier) to see Clark's role as both a hero and journalist explored.

I don't think you were being over critical about the relationship. It's just a general observation i've noticed throughout the fandom. It just seems like no matter what the writers do with Clark and Lois---someone will complain. Either they're moving too fast or moving too slow. Last year, there were fans complaining that their connection seemed only based on lust now there are fans complaining that they need more sex. Some fans complain that they want to see less banter and more serious conversations while others complain if the show dials down the banter for more sincere conversations. It's enough to make your head spin. I just think the pressure and expectations for this particular relationship are light years more than the average Tv relationship. I totally agree that the writers have made some mistakes every now and then. I am of the opinion right now that the writers and showrunners almost slowed Clois down TOO much over the course of the last few episodes. I just think they are so nervous about keeping it slow that they almost "over managed" them.

It's funny because Mairzee Almas had an interesting comment when she was on ShoE for the "Disciple" podcast. Personally, I thought that the opening scene of "Disciple" might have been the hottest scene between those two in the second half of the season next to the scene in Conspiracy. Mairzee was talking about how much Tom and Erica liked each other personally and how much they enjoyed working together. Steve asked her how she would manage them in a scene like that---how much direction she would give them. She said that she already felt like Tom and Erica KNEW what to bring to the table for Clark and Lois and that she tried to limit her role with them to just reminding them of what was coming in the episode, where they were in the script and maybe encourage their reactions. But she indicated that with the two of them it was sort of af "less is more" on the part of the director because they know what to do together. Just step back and let their "natural charimsa" together play out. It's just funny because there have been times over the course of the second half of the season where I've almost felt like Clark and Lois were being over-directed. Like the script and the director were just too invested in getting something right or keeping something slow that they interfered with the natural charisma that exists between these two. My personal opinion is that with Tom and Erica every director needs to follow Mairzee's advice. Less is more. Just let them go and they will figure out what needs to be done with these characters. The writers should just tell the story that they want to tell and stop allowing other people to influence how they write their story. That goes for EVERYTHING on this show.
Anyway, great chatting with you.

tariel22 From: tariel22 Date: April 13th, 2010 03:53 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: New Poster. :)

Oh, MJ! I totally know who you are! I agree with you A LOT! Especially about Chloe. :) Thanks again for your very kind words. I have to admit I couldn't take the criticism when my reviews were posted on the SHoE site. My viewpoint didn't seem to mesh well with the SHoEligans. ;) I'm much happier in my little LJ world.

Obviously there are all kinds of fans of the Clois relationship, and I can understand not caring for the shipper label, and all the preconceived notions that come with it. My own personal idea of a shipper is someone whose enjoyment of the show hinges on what's going on with their couple, and who puts the development of the romance above any other element of the story. I know a lot of the people on my flist who identify themselves as Clois shippers are big Lois fans. Some of them didn't even watch Checkmate because Lois wasn't in it.

I think the writers have had a hard time with Clark and Lois as a couple because of the uncertainty of renewal with this show. They know what they want the end game to be, and when they thought S8 might be the last, they accelerated a lot of things, like Clark's career at the DP and his relationship with Lois, and I thought the first 10 episodes of that season were the best I had ever seen on this show. Strong, proactive Clark, lots of funny, flirty banter, and a real shift in the focus of the story to Metropolis, journalism, and Clark embracing his destiny. What wasn't to love? And then Tom signed on for two more years, the momentum of the season was derailed by Lana's return, and the show had to slam on the brakes as they contemplated their long-term plans. In many ways I love this season even more, but I think we're seeing some of the same timing hiccups.

I remember well what Mairzee Almas said in that Disciple podcast, and I appreciate that her style has always been to sort of stand back and let the actors do their thing, stepping in with direction when it's needed, but trusting in them to know their characters. I loved the scenes between Clark and Lois in Disciple! The chemistry was off the charts! It's funny, I totally read Clark's invitation to Lois to come back to the farm as a sexual one, but so many people told me that I was dead wrong, I started to second guess myself. But now, after Escape, I think more than ever that I was right. How Lois was strong enough to turn him down, I'll never know! :D

I'm so glad you decide to comment here. I've really enjoyed discussing the show with you!
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 13th, 2010 06:53 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: New Poster. :)

I wondered why I wasn't seeing you on SHoE this year! I totally understand though. Honestly, I think sometimes people just need to understand that there are many different kinds of fans of this show and that many different perspectives are valid. The biggest problem in Smallville fandom is that many people assume that the reason that THEY watch the show is more important (or better) than the reason that others do. People who watch only for the relationships fail to recognize that many fans out there just aren't as interested as they are and that the relationships can only be PART of the story but can't be the whole story. But on the other side of the coin, fans who watch soley for the action or watch only to see Clark fight villians aren't really being fair when they label the lighter episodes as being a waste of time or "shipperfests." In my opinion, if a scene adds anything to Clark's growth or character then it's worthwhile. But at the end of the day, it's just weird to me that so many people out there assume that their view on the show just HAS to be the right one. All opinions are valid so long as they are presented in a constructive and reasonable manner. (Which obviously excludes senseless bashing or distorting the actual show canon to suit your own agenda---which as you well know, many fans do.) That's actually my biggest pet peeve--when any fan or reviewer makes a general statement without backing it up with the actual show canon or twisting the accuracy of the canon.

You weren't the only one who read the scene in Disciple as sexual. I did too and I don't think you were dead wrong. I don't think he was asking for sex per se. (That would have been a little fast for Clark.) I just kind of thought he was hoping to make out and maybe get to second base or something. LOL. Basically I thought that "I could show you Clark KEnt's tour of the galaxy" was his way of saying, "Come back to the farm and let me feel you up for a little while." LOL. And then he kissed her mid-sentence after that as if to make his point. So don't second guess yourself. I think you were right. He's Clark. It's not like he would have pressured her or anything if she wasn't ready which was why he didn't push it after she said no.

As for the shipper thing...yeah, I don't get that. I'm a fan of Smallville. I love Lois. She is my second favorite person on the show AFTER Clark. But at the end of the day this is Clark's show. Lois is the second most important person in the Superman story....but it's HIS story. I would never miss an episode as long as it had CLARK in it. Most of the Clois fans I know and associate with on the web would never not watch an episode because of lack of Lois. They love Clark too much.

I am interested in hearing your thoughts on Checkmate. My initial reaction to the episode was pretty close to rage due to Clark's low screentime and a few other things that upset me about his scenes in general. But the more I reflected on it the more my opinion changed completely. Now, I feel like I have a totally different opinion on everything Clark related from the episode and I can appreciate the episode in a whole new way.

Great chatting with you. Hope to talk to you again soon. :)


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